Monday, June 26, 2006
Chapters 1-4: Evil and Love
First a small question: Are we now stopping to discuss? I wanna keep reading but also want to make sure we all stay on the same page (literally, haha).
So what do you all think so far?
I am seeing themes of Love and Evil. The love (which i thought at first was gonna make me sick, along with JT) seems like it could be (but the jury is still out) diving into more interesting territory by etching out some different shades of love (with the whole Delphine and Cyprian thing).
The evil is the more interesting of the two to me right now. There is a lot of forboding, very dark, grim references to the War, the brokeness of Delphine's family, and of course a few dead bodies. There is that one interesting passage where the author, through Delphine, briefly raises the question of God, whether he is good, and if he is why is there evil?
"Not that she ever railed at God. From the time she'd understood God wouldn't giver her her mother back, she knewthat was a waste of time. Because it offended her to swallow as many as twenty or thirty lies per day, she quit school in her final year. God was all good. Lie! God was all powerful. All right, maybe. But if so, then clearly not all good, since he let her mother die. All merciful? Lie. Just? Lie. All seeing? Had he really the time to watch what her hands did beneath the covers at night? Did God really invade her brain and weepp at her impure thoughts? And if so, why had he concentrated oon such trivia rather than curing her mother of her illness? What sort of choice was that?" Chapter 3
Also this from Fidelis' chapter (2), which seemed so shockingly out of nowhere after the humorous war between the butchers that the contrast with absurdity put it in greater and more sinister relief:
"For of course, every so often the town recieved a great shock. It seemed that just as people grew into a false assurance, believed for instance that their prayers worked and that evil was kept at bay, or thoughtlessly celebrated the quiet of their community with a street dance, a parade, or any kind of energetic complacence, something happened. Someone turned up dead. A child mother in a load of grain. There was a pregnant woman, then one day she wasn't pregnant anymore. People know s he killed her baby but there was no proof. A yound m an walked the streets. Then the man disappeared. A bank robbery. Car wreck. A boy chopped to pieces in a threshing accident. The children's favorite schoolteacher blew his head off. Once again the town would be reminded that even though it was populated by an army of decent people, even though a majority counted themselves pious churchgoers, even though Argus prided itself on civic participation, it was not immune. Strub's funerary stood flourishing, a testament of the fact that death liked Argus just as much as anywhere else. And evil, though it was not condoned by the city council, flourished nonetheless, here and there, in surprising and secret pockets."
Great forshadowing, and if carried off well a great theme for discussion, this evil business.
So what do you all think so far?
I am seeing themes of Love and Evil. The love (which i thought at first was gonna make me sick, along with JT) seems like it could be (but the jury is still out) diving into more interesting territory by etching out some different shades of love (with the whole Delphine and Cyprian thing).
The evil is the more interesting of the two to me right now. There is a lot of forboding, very dark, grim references to the War, the brokeness of Delphine's family, and of course a few dead bodies. There is that one interesting passage where the author, through Delphine, briefly raises the question of God, whether he is good, and if he is why is there evil?
"Not that she ever railed at God. From the time she'd understood God wouldn't giver her her mother back, she knewthat was a waste of time. Because it offended her to swallow as many as twenty or thirty lies per day, she quit school in her final year. God was all good. Lie! God was all powerful. All right, maybe. But if so, then clearly not all good, since he let her mother die. All merciful? Lie. Just? Lie. All seeing? Had he really the time to watch what her hands did beneath the covers at night? Did God really invade her brain and weepp at her impure thoughts? And if so, why had he concentrated oon such trivia rather than curing her mother of her illness? What sort of choice was that?" Chapter 3
Also this from Fidelis' chapter (2), which seemed so shockingly out of nowhere after the humorous war between the butchers that the contrast with absurdity put it in greater and more sinister relief:
"For of course, every so often the town recieved a great shock. It seemed that just as people grew into a false assurance, believed for instance that their prayers worked and that evil was kept at bay, or thoughtlessly celebrated the quiet of their community with a street dance, a parade, or any kind of energetic complacence, something happened. Someone turned up dead. A child mother in a load of grain. There was a pregnant woman, then one day she wasn't pregnant anymore. People know s he killed her baby but there was no proof. A yound m an walked the streets. Then the man disappeared. A bank robbery. Car wreck. A boy chopped to pieces in a threshing accident. The children's favorite schoolteacher blew his head off. Once again the town would be reminded that even though it was populated by an army of decent people, even though a majority counted themselves pious churchgoers, even though Argus prided itself on civic participation, it was not immune. Strub's funerary stood flourishing, a testament of the fact that death liked Argus just as much as anywhere else. And evil, though it was not condoned by the city council, flourished nonetheless, here and there, in surprising and secret pockets."
Great forshadowing, and if carried off well a great theme for discussion, this evil business.
# posted by Krissy @ 1:04 PM 
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Hi all,
First of all, I love reading your comments! I've only been able to give about 50% of my attention to the book, so your thoughts/ questions will help me focus a little better. By the same token, my comments will probably not be that deepor well organized.
Also, I may have passed Ch. 4 by now, so I'll hold off on a couple of comments regarding Delphine and Cyprian's relationship.
I like the idea of different shades of love, and I'm interested not only in the types of love but also the effect or power of these types, if they bring fulfillment or change in the same way to the characters. (I'm not sure if "types of love" is what I really want to say. Maybe the "content" of the love? What does it mean to love the other in each case in terms of emotions, interactions, etc). I guess I'm looking more at how the love that each character experiences develops them. If Delphine is not satisfied by the love she and Cyprian share, if it doesn't fulfill her deepest need, what will? I don't know if this is within Ch 4 or after (forgive me if it's after), but Erdrich writes interestingly that after Delphine's encounter with Eva, the feelings she was expxeriencing were like being in love, but different.
I was also struck by the "paradoxical truth" line that JT pointed out, but I wasn't irritated. I did have to think about it and it actually made sense to me. Maybe it's along the same lines as the question above about what will fulfill her(our) deepest need. Sometimes we think we know what will fulfill us, but it turns out to be temporary or not the thing we really need. As we cling to it or the memory of it, we die inside because we are not making room for what brings us life (whatever that is).
As for these themes of life, death, love, evil, I think it'll be interesting how we come to qualify them as we move through the book.
I have to agree with BP and JT about the pace and structure of the book, and I'm with Steph on the singing club. The book is a little scattered to me, and a bit abrupt in its turns. It doesn't develop naturally. But then again, it could be because I am not totally with it when I'm reading.
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First of all, I love reading your comments! I've only been able to give about 50% of my attention to the book, so your thoughts/ questions will help me focus a little better. By the same token, my comments will probably not be that deepor well organized.
Also, I may have passed Ch. 4 by now, so I'll hold off on a couple of comments regarding Delphine and Cyprian's relationship.
I like the idea of different shades of love, and I'm interested not only in the types of love but also the effect or power of these types, if they bring fulfillment or change in the same way to the characters. (I'm not sure if "types of love" is what I really want to say. Maybe the "content" of the love? What does it mean to love the other in each case in terms of emotions, interactions, etc). I guess I'm looking more at how the love that each character experiences develops them. If Delphine is not satisfied by the love she and Cyprian share, if it doesn't fulfill her deepest need, what will? I don't know if this is within Ch 4 or after (forgive me if it's after), but Erdrich writes interestingly that after Delphine's encounter with Eva, the feelings she was expxeriencing were like being in love, but different.
I was also struck by the "paradoxical truth" line that JT pointed out, but I wasn't irritated. I did have to think about it and it actually made sense to me. Maybe it's along the same lines as the question above about what will fulfill her(our) deepest need. Sometimes we think we know what will fulfill us, but it turns out to be temporary or not the thing we really need. As we cling to it or the memory of it, we die inside because we are not making room for what brings us life (whatever that is).
As for these themes of life, death, love, evil, I think it'll be interesting how we come to qualify them as we move through the book.
I have to agree with BP and JT about the pace and structure of the book, and I'm with Steph on the singing club. The book is a little scattered to me, and a bit abrupt in its turns. It doesn't develop naturally. But then again, it could be because I am not totally with it when I'm reading.
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